PhilipTheBucket @ PhilipTheBucket @ponder.cat

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iirc klipper on kde syncs them by default

I wonder why that is lol

I solved my problem already; wl-paste was able to set up a situation that's pretty acceptable to me (which, BTW, actually will preserve your ability to highlight text and then paste something from CLIPBOARD into something else if you want to). Helix over ssh still can only manage to yank text into one of the clipboards, and not the other, but I have invested enough of my free time into this problem at this point and don't really want to delve into the reasons for that any further since I have a workflow that semi-works and whatever it's fine.

Like I said in one of the other comments, adding the ability to paste text from any of the last N copies would solve your problem as well as many others, and it would also degrade gracefully into acceptable behavior instead of degrading into inability to copy-paste as the current system does. I've already solved my problem so I am fine, but I still refuse to accept on any level that this was the right way to structure things.

That was it! Yeah, it was wonderful.

I knew some people who put together a demo for a MMORPG that would support people playing the monsters or the players depending on what their particular play style was. You could build your character, have social interactions, level up over time, and put all this attention into your skill tree. Or, you could run around and fuck shit up, potentially as a massive OP badass boss who could mow player characters down, and then you would respawn instantly when you (frequently) got killed.

I don't know of it having been done in exactly the way they wanted to do, although a couple of the games in the Aliens franchise came pretty close. There was also one fascinating mod (I legit can't remember the name) where one player on the "Marines" team was basically playing an RTS in the ship giving orders and the rest of the team was running around playing an FPS against the (also player-controlled) alien team. It was a ton of fun.

I miss the pre-AAA-shitfest era of gaming.

Gloucester

Yeah, IDK, I don't think it has enough replay value to be worth playing today. Tunic is good, probably a pretty close analogue of the overall feeling. Some games from the NES era hold up really surprisingly well (Contra, Life Force, Bionic Commando) but more what I was saying about Metal Gear was just that it was a pivotal part of the evolution of games and a fun game to play at the time (and has ten times more soul than whatever nonsense they're slapping the label on in the modern day.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsYLxNkeRGM

I miss old internet

You needed to play it as a little kid when it first came out.

We were just getting used to inventories. Stealth in games simply didn't exist. The whole concept of key cards as far as I know didn't exist, and even that whole structure of parts of the game that were blocked off behind abilities you didn't have yet, or ways you hadn't realized you could use your existing abilities, was still pretty brand new.

The thing I wish it had done, which Zelda 1 did very well but which very few games even up to the modern day have the balls / level design skill to do, is gate parts of the game behind combat that is just straight-up too hard for you yet. Almost always, the Metroidvania structure includes parts that are challenging, but everything you can reach is doable if you focus on it for a bit. And then, when you do them, you can unlock some more doable stuff. Zelda wasn't like that. There were parts you could reach that would just outright murder you. You had whole parts of the game that were locked off behind enemies that were still too hard for you, for a long time, and so going into those areas felt like a for-real adventure. Once you got kitted up enough to be able to go hang out there, and explore it in detail and survive as long as you were alert, you feel super badass. It leads to this feeling of accomplishment that's totally different from how it would feel if it was the exact same difficulty curve but all the stuff that was too hard for you gets locked away until you were ready for it.

Anyway, Metal Gear wasn't like that. The combat was honestly pretty much just bad, even for the time period. But it introduced stealth and a new approach to big sprawling worlds, where you can't even really make sense of the map because it is so non-Euclidean and you're wandering through this bizarre and hostile environment. It's like a Metroidvania where at any given time, you can only find 3 different gates, and they're all locked, and so you have to go back over all your previous stuff and try to figure out what you missed. How all the different trucks move, what you can and can't use your items for, finding new information or new frequencies for your radio, it was just this really surprisingly complex game that was still while the whole industry was shaking off the Atari era and trying to do real games. It was a new take on Metroidvania, all cramped corridors and locked doors and rooms that insta-kill you instead of open sprawling maps and inviting ledges you can't reach yet.

It didn't even have a plot, and it still had a massive coherent plot for the games of the time. It had a plot! I don't know man. You can't even really compare it to the "she breathes through her skin" era of Metal Gear because Metal Gear just defected from its original form into a totally different class of game, the Cinematic Bullshit-O-Rama With Occasional Gameplay At Times. It's one of the modern AAA games industry's favorite genres. But the old Metal Gear, for all its significant flaws, was a genuine and successful effort to move the medium forward.

Plus I was a little kid and I enjoyed playing it. I saw this magazine ad for it that was just this massive list of all the different items you can get, and it just wasn't like anything I'd seen before. And, they followed through; they didn't just pad out the list with weirdness, they actually thought of something you could do with everything. What about these cigarettes? Surely that's just a little joke, right? No. The cigarettes are useful. You need them at one point. Of course you do. The empty cardboard box is useful. Everything is useful.

Yeah... it is sad. I think the same qualities of "giving a shit" that make people create good servers also lead them to burn out easily, because they take the bullshit of the internet to heart. I wish them good things. It sucks.

Oh, also, update: I found a thing with the new setup that still doesn't work. Highlighting stuff in Colab doesn't put it into PRIMARY, and I can't even really seem to copy into CLIPBOARD since Colab overrides the right-click to offer me a menu that doesn't give me "Copy" as one of the options.

I mean Colab is shit, that's not surprising. I just wanted to add one more data point that making a strange paradigm is going to cause issues down the road, whereas simple paradigms have power and can survive.

Edit: Literally right after I sent this message, I needed to copy one thing and then log in to somewhere in order to send it, and I did the thing of highlighting the password in the password manager, middle-clicking to paste it, and then did Ctrl-V to paste the thing I had needed to copy previously and it was more convenient because I didn't have to go back and copy it again. So yes today it worked out slightly better in that one specific situation.

Because they are made by, and for, assholes.

None of the Metal Gear games after the original NES one did anything for me, so I didn't really get it and wasn't aware, but yes every time I learn something new about it ("she breathes through her skin that's why she's half naked all the time") it just reinforces the original judgement.

The people who make video games are a bunch of weird assholes

No idea about tools although I hope you find something.

Two related suggestions that will change your life:

1. Grunt Fund if you are making decisions about equity
2. Have people estimate the total time for a task, rigidly enforce that every man-hour spent on a project has to be allocated to one of those tasks (including the elusive but vital "oh shit we forgot" task), keep track of the coefficient between the two. It'll be different for different people sometimes. When estimating a project, have people come up with estimates and then multiply by the coefficient. Be transparent with everyone about this system. It'll revolutionize your project management life once people get used to it. I tried to find a blog post which explains more detail, but honestly, it's not complicated, and Google is too shit now to find it.

You can also trigger a fairly bizarre cutscene where your character takes a shower with one of the female characters but she keeps all her clothes on, if you cultivate a certain level of unrepentant stink.

https://www.gameslearningsociety.org/how-do-you-trigger-a-quiet-shower-scene/

I mean it works for me now, see my comment where I talked about some of the unreasonably extensive configuration I had to do to make it work the way I wanted. At this point I have CLIPBOARD automatically synced to PRIMARY, so I can always copy something and then middle-click and I'll get it. And I still have nice behavior that Linux generally makes possible (being able to copy and paste out of terminals even if I'm scrolling around on the thing within the terminal while I'm doing it). Now if someone can just teach Ubuntu what xterm-kitty as the terminal setting means, when I have to ssh to an Ubuntu machine, I can finally be happy.

The thing is, in X11 that clipboard behaviour was written once, and that made it work everywhere.

Dude it just doesn't work this way. People write apps and they choose keyboard shortcuts, people port applications and frameworks from one place to another. I randomly fired up the first non native program that came to mind, hit ctrl-shift-c, and it didn't copy stuff to CLIPBOARD. I get what you're saying but the keyboard shortcuts simply aren't going to be defined unilaterally by the one and only author of the only allowed windowing toolkit and then everyone's going to use that for all time. It just doesn't work that way. Software is a social contract. Actually, I would hold up the MacOS "Ctrl-C versus Cmd-C" paradigm as a golden example of how it should be: The paradigm is clear and easily defined, and obviously makes sense, so of course everyone who's dealing with some kind of software on Mac is going to adhere to it. It's easy and sensible, and then the fact that there's a standard toolkit that provides it out-of-the-box becomes icing on the cake instead of being the only thing holding back dysfunction.

Look at my list of fixes for finally making my clipboard work sort-of the way I wanted it to. Only one of them had anything even vaguely to do with the windowing toolkit. It's an issue of the fundamental paradigms at work. My complaint was a little bit more focused on X11 introducing a new (and, I would argue, largely pointless) paradigm that now everyone needs to be aware of and adhere to. The people implementing clipboard-provider = "termcode" in Helix aren't going to benefit from any X11 toolkit regardless of what software is on the desktop that runs the ssh session connecting to the headless computer where Helix is running. But do they have to think about whether the stuff that gets copied from a remote session is going to go to PRIMARY or CLIPBOARD? Do the people who write the protocol that sends clipboard stuff over xterm terminals? I mean, I would hope they do, otherwise we're back at the issue of randomly choosing one clipboard or another, which was a big part of what I was saying people would (and did) do in practice and why I levied criticism at the original paradigm for introducing that stupid choice to their programming.

I can definitely understand your frustration with the clipboard situation, but it’s a decades old paradigm, and I’m used to it, so it seems reasonable to me.

I mean people said the same thing about slavery. Now that I got it out of my system by whining about it on Lemmy and then took some time to set things up how I want them, I'm pretty much fine with the behavior on my system now. The frustration basically came from (a) things don't work for me and (b) the reasons why seem stupid, and then coupled up also with (c) I'm having trouble making it work in a way I am happy with. Now that (a) and (c) are taken care of by running wl-paste (which I guess is doing what the xfce person was saying their system does, just on the side instead of out-of-the-box), I'm not embittered about it anymore. But it just still seems silly.

The people writing the tools don’t have to do this, it ‘just works’ as it’s functionality the UI framework provides.

Read it as "if you're going to teach all your UI frameworks to do this," then. My point is, the people who write the software that handles clipboards are having to deal with multiple clipboard. If that's invisible to the app author because it's in a toolkit, then great. The people that wrote the toolkit still had to worry about it. To me it would have been preferable if what they're supporting was a different and more sensible paradigm.

Or when I trained all those other sharks to attack surfers, that was different

ctrl-shift-v

ctrl-shift-c

Well, today I learned something new, that's pretty useful.

I might use the clipboard to store a path I need to use in multiple places, maybe in multiple tools, and the selection for ephemeral data like a snippet of output from the last command, or an ID value from a web page, something like that. It’s a bit tricky to explain, it’s just the way it’s always worked on unix and linux UIs, and it just becomes second nature to think with those tools.

Yeah, I get that. IDK, it's just bizarre to me. It does make sense. I still maintain that it would make a little more sense, if you're going to teach all your tools how to use multiple shortcuts and interact with a complex clipboard situation, to do the same thing by just having them able to look back an arbitrary distance in the history of a single clipboard, like M-y in emacs.

They would also carry a little basket of hand grenades sometimes, and toss them out of the airplane to fall on any troops they saw down below.

It was a fucking wild time lol. No radios, open cockpit, no artificial horizon. If you flew into a cloud you just lost your orientation and fell out of the sky and died. They just went up there.

This is so bizarre. None of these links back up any of these accusations. All the fire and passion of someone who is proving their case is there, but nothing is actually proved. There's a claim, and then a screenshot / link, but the link never lines up with the thing being claimed. It's all just either another thread full of accusations or else some random Lemmy-drama that isn't related to the claim.

I would ask for detailed proof (What is the output of the python script? You say it proved that Sunshine was using an army of alts, can I see the proof it created? That seems like that would be good to include as long as you're doing screenshots and etc.), but you say you're quitting Lemmy, so I guess there's not a point.